Just wanted to thank Tony for posting all this stuff logically and so that mere mortals can comprehend it. I want a Rexxer unit as soon as I can afford one and have time to play with one.

 

Agreed the info Tony has provided has been an eye opener to myself. I had no intention of doing any tuning but the past few days I have come to realize I need to look after my engine as I want to keep this bike for good.

 

Easily solved.

Fit the race Termi, with the new map.

Job done.

Sounds great>

 

For less then the price of that I will have a better looking can (to my eyes) as well as a custom fuel map and ability to turn off service indicator or eliminate 02 sensor.....

 

Turning off your own service indicator is worth it alone, or checking codes. But to be fair fitting the Termi with the UPMAPs is pretty hassle free.

 

IMO, the build quality of the Termi is poor.

AND...

It will cost you almost twice as much as a decent aftermarket pipe with mapping.

AND...

The aftermarket pipe and mapping will out-perform it by a considerable margin.

 

Outperform is relative, it's an air cooled 803 SOHC, shrug. You said yourself the clutch will end up slipping without even going too crazy. Price is also high, yes, but shrug 2; what's $1400 on a $10,000 bike? It's a breath of fresh air to me as opposed to the superbike prices. I'm almost certain you have some sort of working relationship with REXXOR for the amount of plugging you do, if not I apologize and I'll GFMS.

 

Seriously?

I have no "relationship" with the people at Rexxer that has compensated me in ANY fashion.

I have purchased EVERYTHING related to my recent mappings entirely from my own funds - and at full retail pricing.

In addition, I have gone to great lengths - in every post I have made on the subject - to point out that there are also alternate ways to address the fueling issues (eg; power commander, etc.)

In my last post in this thread, the one that you have seemingly gotten so "defensive" about, I criticized Termi's build quality and the lack of effectiveness of the accompanying up-key map, along with the expense required. I fully stand behind that criticism as it is well deserved. Many have reported manufacturing defects with this exhaust (whistling, internal welds breaking, etc.), and the lack of performance from the supplied mapping is also well known.

I made absolutely no mention of Rexxer in that post.

You made the conscious decision to go the "Termi" route, your choice - your bike, I'm sure you are happy with it.

But don't get all upset when someone points out viable alternatives to this - ones that actually have tangible benefits - in order to help others be informed.

You don't know me (obviously) but I am the absolute antithesis of a "fanboy" of ANY particular manufacturer or vendor. I'm naturally skeptical of them all - equally - and only make recommendations when the results warrant.

 

If you have not followed the Termi thread.Aafew broken resonators makes me think I was smart not going that direction. Finally rode with the new pipe feels a little snappier on top low speed some popping. The midrange feels a little flat. Sounds nice and feels like a proper Ducati

 

You're correct, I also did not purchase one of the slip-ons. I inspected the full before purchase, and it's hard to **** it up with a simple straight muffler and some headers. As long as the welds are solid, there's not much else that could fail. I prefer Akrapovic myself, but they're always late to the game. There's nothing wrong with buying something else, I went with the full Termi for ease of use and the included UPMAP. As far as the failures go, that's pretty Italian.

And yes, this bike feels pretty sloppy with the stock muffler/cat.

 

No need to defend yourself or your point of view, I said if I was wrong I'd GFMS; and to each their own. Let's hug it out?

Don't get me wrong, I think most of the OEM stuff is ****. I'm just saying it's not THAT bad. I agree with all your points on mapping, never in dispute. I'm just so skeptical personally on the ROI with this bike with regards to performance.

 

ROI?

A full 10% increase in performance is easily obtained with less than $1000 total investment.

10% is a pretty significant number.

For those not looking for performance, $300 gets you a bike that is actually fueled properly, eliminating the "snatchiness" and low speed stumbling so many have complained about (I'm not is this camp). Plus the bike runs cooler and will be more reliable - long term.

It's kind of funny that you stated that a $1400 outlay was "nothing" in regard to a $10k bike, but now you are questioning ROI.


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ROI?
For those not looking for performance, $300 gets you a bike that is actually fueled properly, eliminating the "snatchiness" and low speed stumbling so many have complained about (I'm not is this camp). Plus the bike runs cooler and will be more reliable - long term.

Tony, two more questions.

with the ZARD low mount i truly feel that my bike is less hot, is it only my impression? I haven't touched anything. else.

I'm also not planning to remap my ECU with Rexxer. I will reset the ECU and, as you said, it will still run lean, fair enough but, will the lean run damage my engine somehow? the original map is programmed to run lean anyway so it shouldn't damage the engine, right?

great thread thanks for all these info buddy.

 

ecu

hi, i have the shift tech slip on exhaust on my FT scrambler. i dont know where the ecu is . can you please explain to me how i remove it from the bike ? then would i ship it to redline for reflashing? i would really appriciate your advice and time.
thamk you
Michael Carrera

 

hi, i have the shift tech slip on exhaust on my FT scrambler. i dont know where the ecu is . can you please explain to me how i remove it from the bike ? then would i ship it to redline for reflashing? i would really appriciate your advice and time.

thamk you

Michael Carrera

The ECU is located under the seat, just in front of the storage area, it looks like this...

I would contact David at Redline before proceeding.


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What about the clutch?

Tony, Thanks for all the good info. Last time I heard from you about the Rexxer unit you still had your O2 sensors enabled. Thanks for posting the US Rexxer link, it does look much more user friendly. What about the clutch issue though?You previously stated that it couldn't keep up with only a 8 hp and 3.6 ft/lb increase. It is apparent that with a more open intake that much greater gains are possible. Have you upgraded your clutch? Barnett makes clutch packs and springs compatible with the Ducati 796. I haven't seen the Scrambler listed on there site. I had also been planning on getting a Rexxer user unit but am waiting to decide what type of intake I am going to purchase. And if I get a more open intake will my clutch hold up, or will I have to upgrade the clutch. Have you heard of other problems of clutches slipping badly when approaching a 10% increase in hp and torque. Intake express is claiming 25% gains so there must be a solution. What are your thoughts?

 

Tony, Thanks for all the good info. Last time I heard from you about the Rexxer unit you still had your O2 sensors enabled. Thanks for posting the US Rexxer link, it does look much more user friendly. What about the clutch issue though?You previously stated that it couldn't keep up with only a 8 hp and 3.6 ft/lb increase. It is apparent that with a more open intake that much greater gains are possible. Have you upgraded your clutch? Barnett makes clutch packs and springs compatible with the Ducati 796. I haven't seen the Scrambler listed on there site. I had also been planning on getting a Rexxer user unit but am waiting to decide what type of intake I am going to purchase. And if I get a more open intake will my clutch hold up, or will I have to upgrade the clutch. Have you heard of other problems of clutches slipping badly when approaching a 10% increase in hp and torque. Intake express is claiming 25% gains so there must be a solution. What are your thoughts?

My clutch issues were solved with some simple "roughing" of the friction plates. Every bike will be different, my suspicion is that my particular setup was a little on the "weak" side.

When you start modifying for performance, and those mods are restricted to intake / exhaust / fueling (as opposed to going into the motor itself) then there is a finite amount of "potential" to be had.

You can tune for peak torque, or peak HP, or any combination of both, but the total gains possible have limits.

It's interesting to look what Intake Express has done so far, their goal was obviously to get he most torque - and the gains are impressive - bit if you look you will see that it comes at the expense of HP gains. They only were able to add 1 hp over base while doing so.

The modifications undertaken where also pretty radical and extensive, requiring massive rework / replacement of the entire intake system.

My opinion is that the Scrambler motor is pretty torquey already, so I opted for a more balanced approach.

At the end of the day, I gained about 8hp, but the real benefit is the way the bike runs overall now. Torque has also been increased, but more moderately, and the fueling has been improved immensely. The power delivery is smooth and linear, through the the entire rev range, and the motor runs measurably cooler.


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Sounds like a good bang for your buck! I know you have the BMC filter. Did you open the air box any? I thought I saw in an earlier post that you had?

 

My earlier "experiments" had me opening the airbox - in addition to using the BMC race filter, while having the baffle in the exhaust removed. This produced the largest gains, but at the expense of a tremendously loud bike. Too loud for casual use.

I then reverted to refitting the baffle, and doing so made the airbox mod and use of race filter unnecessary.

My final setup is no airbox mods, BMC (non-race) filter, baffled exhaust and disabling of the O2 system.

This is where it will stay for me, tuning is over and my fueling is **** near pefect.

On to other areas that need addressing...




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Soo remapping is necessary With aftermarket exhaust. Im thinking Project Italy CR-T or competitionWerkes Slip-on.

Is this easy to do yourself or something you should have Your dealer carry through?
I have never done soo before myself

 

I have never had an ECU mapped either but it is very very simple with the Rexxer unit. Mine is in the post as we speak

 

I have one on it's way to me too

 

Very anxious to hear what you guys have to say about the standard rexxer map. Please share when you can!

 

Not standard but custom based on the standard map they have and adjusted to on your mods.

Someone on another forum has the standard map from rexxer and they are very impressed

 

Came today but will not have a chance to install till Saturday...

 

Could you share the BMC part number, por favor? Maybe I'm slow today, but am stumbling around the BMC site..

 

Anyone tried the remapped ECU with Rexxer mapping yet? I am quite tempted to use this service as the nearest Rexxer point is quite far away and they need to keep the bike for a week so that means two trips. I have been reading positive reviews on the Rexxer mapping and with a different slipon but std headers I think the bike should run well on their mapping for this configuration.

 

It is a very impressive mod. I ended up using the map I had made for a slip on, BMC standard filter, CAT eliminated and 02 sensors disabled. Transforms the bike in terms of smoothness and a very noticeable gain in power too

 

That would be my exact setup too, Tony! Good to hear that you like it. If I understand correctly by disabling the O2 sensors you run on the mapping all the time, whereas the O2 sensors enabled keeps the closed loop circuit in which the ECU will try to improve (or lean out) the mixture based on the input of the seonsors, which would likely mean that with a good map you would be better off running the O2 sensors disabled so that the mapping is correct all the time.

 

This is correct.


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I wonder if the Termi Race map disables the O2 sensor and if not, why.

Also instead of disabling the O2 sensor, wouldn't it be better to adjust the parameters of the formula that the ECU uses when calculating the fuel mix it wants depending on the sensor input? Is the O2 system only there for emissions regulations or does it prevent the engine from running rich/lean because of changes in atmospheric pressure, air filter performance etc?

I still felt that I didn't understand this whole rich/lean and O2 sensor thing so I read up on it and from what I understand, the point of the O2 sensor is to get as close as possible to a 14.7:1 ratio regarding air to fuel. This is because at that ratio the catlytic converter works best. A rich or lean mix both result in increased emissions. So it seems that a bike running in the closed loop, using the oxygen sensor data, having a cat, will try to not run lean (or rich). It tries to hit the sweet spot in terms of cat efficiency.

Therefor disabling the O2 sensor can result in running lean or rich, depending on the fuel map in use.

But I think the real kicker is that eliminating the cat will **** up the formula that the ECU uses when calculating the fuel/air mix to use since without cat, the amount of O2 in the exhaust gases will be very different. The ECU will think the mix is too lean/rich and adjust accordingly even if the combustion is fine. Basically it just gets confused because it assumes the cat is still there.


So what I learn from these thoughts is that eliminating the cat but not the O2 sensor can be really bad. But eliminating the sensor too doesn't make it perfect either. Because now the ECU doesn't have enough data to adjust the fueling according to the atmospheric pressure and so on. A fuel map can't be perfect for all circumstances. Ideally the ECU would be made aware of the missing cat and adjust how it reacts to oxygen sensor data.

Now I think having an aftermarket exhaust with cat (remus, akrapovic) but removable baffles plus new fuel map but leaving O2 sensor intact is way better in terms of improving sound while keeping the engine healthy.

Please feel free to correct me if any of the above is wrong. I am a complete novice when it comes to these things.

 

I think it makes sense but I am by no means an expert. As I replaced my exhaust by a slipon without cat I think there is no need for the O2 sensors; indeed this means that the mapping will determine fuel mixture all the time, but I think this is not bad as the closed loop is only in effect for a small part of the running anyways. The mapping made by Rexxer should be better for all circumstances than the stock mapping with a different slipon/no cat. There will be differences between running at sea level and in the mountains, but that would be the case with the standard mapping and closed loop system in place too, as the closed loop does only work in limited circumstances.

 

My ECU is on its way to Germany by the way, so I should have it back next week with the new mapping.

 

It would be interesting to hear what mpg s you guys get with the remaps and setups you made. While I'd love a better throttle response, I'm not sure I'd give up 10 mpg for it. Thinking about it, ideal would be for the ecu to have two maps, one the one we have for distance either off-road or in the middle of nowhere, the other for weekends and around town. Just a pipe dream, I know.

 

A lot of Ducati's do have selectable maps. It would be cool to have that option on the Scrambler.

I remember reading a post Tony made on one of the forums indicating he lost only a couple MPG's. 10 would be way too much, but 2? I could handle that.

 

Yeah, I'd go for that. The wake-up call was in the middle of Nevada. I had driven about 60mi and the sign said next gas 110mi. Perfect would be a better map and a 5gal tank

 

Hey tony, very informative thread! Thanks for posting all this info.

Noob question: is that the cat on the stock icon exhaust attached to the muffler and not part of the header? The reason why I ask is I don't see the cat in the pictures (don't have my bike yet) and I plan on only getting a slip on competition werkes exhaust, bmc air filter, and rexxer user unit as fat as performance mods go. Trying to find out if I have to swap out the header as well to eliminate the cat.

Thanks!


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CAT is part of stock muffler and takes up the space directly under the swingarm. Take a look at your bike, you will see what I mean.

Fitting an aftermarket can will eliminate the CAT (unless your can of choice has its own CAT, a select few do).

It is very important to remap if the CAT is being eliminated (and beneficial even if it is not).

Adding power will always come with a decrease in fuel economy, as stated any percentage in gains will show a corresponding decrease in mpg percentage (roughly).

Example, adding 5% more power one should expect an equivalent reduction in fuel economy (roughly 5%).

There is no such thing as "free lunch".


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It is a drop in replacement, no mods needed. I bought mine via eBay (Italy).


According to Rexxer, it does not do a lot in terms of output - apparently +1 HP on top end and -1 HP in the midrange, but it is more durable and should sound better. I still need to install mide and will do so as I am waiting for my remapped ECU to return from Rexxer.

 

Thanks, guys. One last question (for now). The Rexxer unit can clear service warnings, correct? So no need to depend on the dealer to clear the 600 mi and 7500 mile service interval warnings for you?

That's honestly one of the biggest reasons why I want the User unit instead of sending my ECU in to get it flashed.

thanks!


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That is correct.