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Scrambler DIY Guru
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been reading and trying to piece together all of the information we'll need in order to hook our bikes up to our own computers with the ultimate (in the future) goals of:

-resetting the service indicator
-adjusting the fuel trim value
-downloading and uploading ECU maps


So far this is where I'm at with my research:

The Scrambler uses a Siemens M3C type ECU which is not the same as the ones used in older Ducatis, and therefore it requires different software than the classic DucatiDiag or the newer JPDiag.

1) One compatible software application is offered by JP and is called MC38.

At the moment you can download it here:
http://jpdiag.akress.com/download.php?file=M3C8

2) You need some sort of generic OBDII cable that hooks to your computer (or possibly a bluetooth version that can also be used with your cell phone and associate apps.)

3) You need an adapter that goes from 16 pin OBDII to _____ which connects to the ducati via its OBD port (this part is a mystery to me at the moment, read below.)

4) Once you have successfully hooked your bike up to your computer and the software makes the hand shake, you need to download your ECU data using M3C8 and send this information to JP so he can send you a -free- license file.

5) After that point, you should now be able to re-start the application and see information about your bike's ECU (and hopefully test/reset a few things.)

At the moment, from what I've read, there is no ability to download and upload ECU maps.

This brings me to my question for you guys who already have your bikes... What does the OBD connector look like. Can any of you photograph it? I believe I have bought the wrong adapter cable and would like to know if, indeed, this is the cable I need to purchase. I have in my possession a Fiat style, 3 pin connector with two loose wires with alligator clips on them. I won't post a photo of it yet because I'd like to avoid confusion if it's not correct. I read on another forum that the bike may use a 4 pin connector of a different design.

So if any of you can locate, uncap, and photograph the OBD plug, I'd greatly appreciate it. My goal once my bike is here and once I have the tools to hook my computer up to it is to make a video tutorial and post it online to help everyone else.
 

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Hey,
you are right,map read/write of Conti/Siemens M3C is not possible at the moment.
Furthermore for complete service you need the "Seed-key", which is only available with a "Brute-Force-Attack" to the M3C at the moment.
This method can last up to 7 days,you need a garage with power for your Laptop and the battery of the bike.

You need two cables:
---ELM:

V1.5 ELM327 OBD2 OBD CAN-BUS Auto Car USB Diagnostic Interface Code Scanner R2 | eBay

and:

Ducati 4 Pin Multistrada CAN Diagnostic Connector Adaptor (DDA) [LEDUCC16ADAP] - £14.99 : Lonelec, Fault Code Readers & ECU Diagnostic Equipment

Cheers

No,i am not a geek....(and no hipster,too) :D>:D
 

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Scrambler DIY Guru
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Discussion Starter #3
I'm only partially a geek, so I'm just trying to understand this all.

Once the guessing game has completed and you know the seed-key combination it's a one-time thing right? It's just a matter of trying every combination until it's known, correct?
 

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I'm only partially a geek, so I'm just trying to understand this all.

Once the guessing game has completed and you know the seed-key combination it's a one-time thing right? It's just a matter of trying every combination until it's known, correct?
Yes,correct.M3C8 has a seed-scanner,after running,it writes the key to a ini file.
Its a one-time-thing.But every ecu has a unique key,the algorythm of the key is unknown at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The wiring diagram won't help here, but please upload a photo or a scan of it. It will come in handy for other reasons. Thanks for the photos!
 

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Rexxer re-flash

I've already been in touch with Rexxer and they advised me they will have a map and we will be able to get our ECU reflashed in about 3 weeks.
My Monster 1100 suffered from lean running, popping out of the Termis on deceleration and some hard starting. The Rexxer cost me $400, removed the oxygen sensors, removed thee xhaust flapper valve and stopped the popping/backfiring. It ran as smooth as, no hunting/surging and started a lot easier. As soon as one is available I will have it done to my Scrambler which does have some surging/hunting especially when trying to stick to one of our F..... stupid 50 Klm/hr speed limits.
Let The Good Times Roll - Ray
p.s. - I'm in Adelaide, South Australia.
 

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I've already started messing with flashing the ECU on these.

  • resetting the service indicator
    • I decoded the CAN protocol a few hours ago.
    • Successfully read/cleared DTC errors on an Icon.
    • No service light (yet). Not because it isn't possible or I don't know how... but I'd be impressed if someone managed to put on 600 miles in 2 days.
  • adjusting the fuel trim value
    • Scrambler uses closed loop with 2 lambas. "Fuel trim" is only for open loop. Not an option here.
  • downloading and uploading ECU maps
    • "1CABBAG1" >:D
 

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If you need it, I could also take a picture of the wiring chart (it's part of the manual)
Yes, a high-res scan would help, at least until they upload the PDF manual.

When I was looking over the diagram in-person I noticed it mentioned a Bluetooth connection. Also the USB connector is for charging only.... no data lines. But it shares power with some sensors. (I think.) If that's true, I would be too scared to use it! I'd probably want to trace it again to be sure.

You need an adapter that goes from 16 pin OBDII to _____ which connects to the ducati via its OBD port (this part is a mystery to me at the moment, read below.)
That's a Delphi SICMA sealed 4-way connector... common to Multis, Pannis, Monster EVOs, etc. It accesses the 500kbps 11-bit CANbus on the bike. Sadly, the protocol is completely proprietary. Some very smart people are working on reverse engineering it right now. You can't hack it, you don't own it.

http://catalog.delphi.com/connectors/product/view/211PL042S0011
 

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I've already started messing with flashing the ECU on these.

  • resetting the service indicator
    • I decoded the CAN protocol a few hours ago.
    • Successfully read/cleared DTC errors on an Icon.
    • No service light (yet). Not because it isn't possible or I don't know how... but I'd be impressed if someone managed to put on 600 miles in 2 days.
  • adjusting the fuel trim value
    • Scrambler uses closed loop with 2 lambas. "Fuel trim" is only for open loop. Not an option here.
  • downloading and uploading ECU maps
    • "1CABBAG1" >:D
Do i understand your post correct-you are able to read/write the Scrambler ECU?
Which tool did you use?
THX!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Will there be a way for the rest of us to do this with software and connectors in the future? Are you designing software or did you write your own to perform the operations on the ECU?
 

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No work on the ECU yet -- since that would be "evil".

I've made my own tools and cables. I made an Adruino microcontroller the size of a pack of cards that connects to the DDA port. It can read every bit of data available to the bike and logs it to a SD card. (Acceleration, speed, gear, temperature, manifold pressure, GPS, throttle position, blinkers... you name it.) I've also added the code to reset service/maintenance lights with the push of a button. Even hijacked some of the instruments: when I press the menu buttons in a certain sequence the logger turns on, and turn cancel button to turn it off. (I could make it do anything I want: flip a relay to turn on auxiliary lights, etc.)

It's still in development, lots of exposed wires and command line tools. But if you've ever heard of ScanM5X (free on Google play), I'm the person who worked with the developer to add digital AFR logging. Now I'm helping him add these new bikes. I've already reverse engineered most of the protocol but there's still some holes... particular with the ABS unit.

If there's interest I may make more of these and make it available for sale, but it is definitely a "power user" tool. (Aside from the service light resets and diagnostic commands.)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm definitely interested, but to put it into perspective, I am only smart enough to make a Raspberry Pi play vintage Nintendo games. I know what you're talking about, I just don't know how to do any of this on my own without possibly blowing up the ECU. I'm also an Apple kool-aid drinker, so I haven't owned any Android devices. But what you're saying is that eventually with a bluetooth dongle, we can use an android device to reset the service light on our bikes and log DTC so we know what's broken?

That's mostly what I'm after.

I'd also be interested in whatever interface can download ECU maps to flash memory and conversely upload them from the same place. It's always highly dependent upon having someone smart like you to be associated with the specific bikes in order for the rest of us to ever be able to break free from the dealerships. ie: certain bikes have no DIY support and others have a lot of freeware and ECU maps floating around the internet.

So I'd be happy to support your endeavors in some way. If everyone that had a Scrambler could easily use the app to keep track of their bike's health I think it'd be a good thing.
 

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Ultimately we want you to .... become a vendor here or .... sell your project to one of our Site Sponsors for resale.
Grass Roots / Garage Project Forum - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
Ducati.ms - Membership Fees
Read that and you'll understand why I have issues sharing my work outside a small circle I trust.

The mods on the sister forum wanted me to start paying them to share my open-source, open-spec dev. I don't like the idea of my work being touted as an "asset" for the forum owners to forcibly sell to Site Sponsors. And I sure as heck don't have $600 per year -- I don't even have a donate button! All the work I do on the internet is free as in speech, free as in beer. That one policy has been holding back Ducati development a lot I think. Six/seven years ago people used to make airbox plates, mill triples, fender eliminators, etc. out of their garage, and there were a lot more interesting projects. Not so much anymore. :confused:

But that is neither here nor there. So I'll just post pictures of my new toy. :p


  • The phone is optional, I designed this to be a standalone tool. It logs to the SD card you see there or to the USB port if you plug it in. I control the service resets and datalogger functions through the joystick.
  • The UI is was thrown out completely... I recently had to switch TFT shields because the old one wasn't playing nice with the I2C bus. And I'm waiting on a Mouser order to make a power regulator so I can use the bike's 12v directly rather than a Battery Tender USB plug.
  • I'm still having some issues with the service login for these Siemens VDO ECUs.... if someone is knowledgeable about that, they're the person I need to talk to right now.

Canbus Hack - Security Access or 0x27 Ways to Have Fun
 

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I wouldn't "come up with something like ScanM5X", I'd help him code it to add these bikes! :D The whole point is making it available to end-riders.

It won't be shareable for a while. Could be next summer. I'm still playing with the hardware, lot of implementation-specific challenges. Like I said, if anyone is good with understanding the ECU security access handshake, send me a message or post!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The guy who developed the M3C8 software for this ECU has the function to brute force hack the seed/key combo but someone said it can take two weeks of constant attempts to break it. If you don't have that software, you might download it and see if it would help you at all. Presently the download is here:

http://jpdiag.akress.com/download.php?file=M3C8

The software works with VAG OBDII cords and the proper connector to the ECU on the Ducati (the four pin SICMA style on the bike.) You are probably hooked directly to pins on the ECU though, so I'm not sure if it'd be helpful to you or not.
 
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