The comprehensive exhaust re-map thread - Ducati Scrambler Forum
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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The comprehensive exhaust re-map thread

As we know, the Termi race pipe comes with a reflash of the ECU.

Let's use this as a venue to discuss who has/hasn't retuned after changing their exhaust and what you experiences were.

I'm curious about the third party slip-ons, but am nervous that I will have a degradation in performance without a new tune.

What pipe do you have and how has it worked out for you?
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:39 PM
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I'm also interested in why people change the Scrambler's exhaust (waiting for August delivery). I've only had 30+ year old bikes and don't have any experience with roaring engines and performance tuning.

Is it sound, power, or fueling that's making people jump? Seems like a high percentage on the forum have bought the race Termignoni immediately or installed on delivery.
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brendanfalkowski View Post
I'm also interested in why people change the Scrambler's exhaust (waiting for August delivery). I've only had 30+ year old bikes and don't have any experience with roaring engines and performance tuning.

Is it sound, power, or fueling that's making people jump? Seems like a high percentage on the forum have bought the race Termignoni immediately or installed on delivery.
With the race Termi it has to be sound as I am not keen on how it looks. Myself I want a balance of improved sound and sharper looks

Tony
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by brendanfalkowski View Post
I'm also interested in why people change the Scrambler's exhaust (waiting for August delivery). I've only had 30+ year old bikes and don't have any experience with roaring engines and performance tuning.

Is it sound, power, or fueling that's making people jump? Seems like a high percentage on the forum have bought the race Termignoni immediately or installed on delivery.
All of the above, plus weight reduction.

The CAT and silencer on the Scrambler must weigh at least 15 lbs.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:45 PM
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Sound! Definitely
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:56 PM
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One dyno run I saw put the OEM muffler against a bike with the Termi muffler and the horsepower curves looked nearly identical. So it's all about the sound (which I can't blame anyone for seeking out.)

I kind of like having a quiet bike that doesn't draw the ire of police or any other person on a bike.

The bike is fuel injected so you can probably put a piece of straight fence post on the exhaust as a muffler and the computer will attempt to adapt to it within reason. Getting rid of the OEM map bypasses emissions standards and uses more gasoline with the annoying side effect of a bit more horsepower

But it's not like a carburetor where people upjet the main jet 5 numbers so they can stick straight pipes on their old Honda or whatever. Not that THAT was ever a proper solution, but that's just common perception of what you do when you put on a free flowing muffler. Proper ECU mapping is like proper carb jetting in that it dials several things into a better state than just trying to force the computer to re-learn fueling and subsequently overcoming your entire range of throttle with JUST main jet changes.
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanfalkowski View Post
I'm also interested in why people change the Scrambler's exhaust (waiting for August delivery). I've only had 30+ year old bikes and don't have any experience with roaring engines and performance tuning.

Is it sound, power, or fueling that's making people jump? Seems like a high percentage on the forum have bought the race Termignoni immediately or installed on delivery.
There is no doubt that uncorking the exhaust has a few benefits. The question is more whether or not those are meaningful enough to you to spend the $$$:

1) Weight saving: Most aftermarket pipes lose the catalytic converter (heavy) so you're effectively shaving off a few lbs from an already light bike. Does that make a significant difference in day-to-day use? On its own, probably not. With other mods, power gains etc...maybe?

2) Power: We're talking small gains (2-5 HP at the wheel and comparable torque on this bike) but may be a factor for some. Worth noting that Termi solutions will be the only ones to come with their own re-map/ECU so fueling and power SHOULD be as good, if not better than stock. Other aftermarket pipes do not come with an ECU remap so it's up to the owner to decide if a remap is required (subject of this thread) or if they are happy running stock mapping (in most Ducs that use this type of motor from years past, fueling at low RPM does degrade by doing slip-on only and no remap and I would assume that it's going to be the case with the Scrambler). You also get into existential questions here, such as "does this bike need more power?" (and the answer...well, it's pretty much always yes )

3) Aesthetics: Subjective, but also a factor. Shotgun, under-seat, high pipe, etc

4) Sound: This one, to me, if probably the most significant reason for switching to aftermarket. Losing the catalytic converter usually makes the bike louder, then, depending on the pipe design, will also modify the sound (growl, shriek, purr...and everything in between). A bike that sounds better may "feel" faster...whether or not it's actually making more power is another story. Motorcycling is a visceral experience so it's no surprise that most Ducs end up with aftermarket pipes at some point.

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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 01:05 PM
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For me I prefer the look of the Termi, it's a beautifully finished piece of engineering, and the sound without the DB killer is awesome. I've always liked loud cans, I doubt most people will notice a few BHP either way so to change simply for power I consider something of a waste of time. If you want more power you bought the wrong bike!


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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 01:54 PM
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The bike is fuel injected so you can probably put a piece of straight fence post on the exhaust as a muffler and the computer will attempt to adapt to it within reason.
You don't understand how fuel injection on a motorcycle works.

Most FI on bikes is a very primitive "open-loop" type system. Almost all of these have no sensors and no "learning" of any kind. Just fueling provided by a programmed fuel map (monitored by the ECU looking at RPM's and throttle position).

The Scrambler does, however, have a "semi-closed-loop" system - which monitors the condition in the pipe (lean or rich) and makes adjustments accordingly.

BUT...

Even with this level of "sophistication", adjustments are only made at the very high end of the RPM scale. At low to moderate RPM's - it's fuel map only - no adjustments, and certainly no "learning".

These are not cars, which have infinitely more complex systems.
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 03:07 PM
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I understand how it works fairly well. There are oxygen sensors which definitely feed back information with this configuration on the Scrambler (and are hard or impossible to bypass with this ECU.) It's part of the reason that hooking a Dynojet Power Commander onto this bike is probably somewhat worthless. It's enough to adjust for a trip up and down a mountain. You see a lot of idiots running around FI bikes with the mufflers cut off. I'm sure it's not the best thing in the world for the health of the engine, but it's also not putting holes in the pistons.

I also said within reason. Whatever muffler you stick on there might surpass what the computer would like to do at a given gear:rpm ratio due to overly lean conditions but the computer will swing as far as it is allowed to on the fuel map. My hunch is that most damage, if any, is done at idle and 'take off' as opposed to WOT.
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